The 18" wide clubhead was obviously not intended to be a realistic design goal. It was only created as an "idea" to get across certain concepts - that if Anthony Kim (or any other golfer) swings perfectly on-plane (per Homer's definition of an on-plane swing) and gets to the elbow plane by the 3rd parallel, then he is going to be staying on the elbow plane between the 3rd and 4th parallels. I also think that he is going to have the "feeling" that the sweetspot rotates to the clubshaft plane post-impact (X rotates to B) and there will never be a "feeling" of the hosel leaving the elbow plane post-impact and rotating around the sweetspot.
I am not at all convinced that a golfer who mentally thinks of an orbiting sweetspot, but still swings on-plane to the elbow plane by the 3rd parallel (like Anthony Kim), will generate a different clubshaft/clubhead arc of movement than Anthony Kim.
A question - the baseline of the sweetspot plane must exist outside the baseline of the clubshaft plane. During which part of the swing is the golfer tracing the sweetspot plane (aiming at the sweetspot plane)?
Can a golfer practice tracing a SPL with a dowel stick, which doesn't have a clubhead and a rotating sweetspot that is a finite distance away from the longitudinal axis of the shaft in the impact zone?
I think that you theoretical example has no relevance to a "real" golf swing.
Remember that the sole of the clubhead must lie flat against the ground at impact - irrespective of whether the clubhead width is 4", 8", 12" or 18". That's an absolute necessity. Therefore, that absolute requirement defines the exact clubshaft angle that must exist at impact - it depends on the club's lie angle.
A golfer must achieve that "correct" clubshaft plane angle at impact. To get to that "correct" clubshaft plane at impact in a very efficient manner, one simply has to perform the same biomechanical movements that Anthony Kim performs - whether the clubhead width is 4" or 8" or 12". Of course, the stresses and efficiency associated with swinging a 12" wide clubhead is going to very different when compared to swinging a 4" wide clubhead.
Jeff.
Jeff,
In our mental experiments, both of them, we design the experiments to adjust the swing axis and the swing plane of the swing machine so that the sole of the clubhead to lie flat against the ground at impact!
With (1) the clubshaft in the swing plane: would be a more upright swing. (Swing axis more horizontal)
With (2) the COM of the club in the swing plane: would be a flatter swing. (Swing axis more vertical)
Both intend to start with the soled clubhead and with the soled clubhead at impact.
BTW, (2) is similar to swinging with a centered-hosel club with the clubshaft on plane.
The 18" wide clubhead was obviously not intended to be a realistic design goal.
Thank God.
Originally Posted by Jeff
It was only created as an "idea" to get across certain concepts - that if Anthony Kim (or any other golfer) swings perfectly on-plane (per Homer's definition of an on-plane swing) and gets to the elbow plane by the 3rd parallel, then he is going to be staying on the elbow plane between the 3rd and 4th parallels.
Jeff, you're missing the whole point. Assuming the Elbow Plane through Impact, the Elbow is indeed 'in Plane', but . . . with what? The answer is: the Sweetspot, and not the Clubshaft. The Clubshaft (the visible) is a close enough representation of the Sweetspot's Centrifugal Line of Pull (the invisible), but it is not quite as precise as some demand. Knowing you were coming (but still didn't quite yet get it), Homer Kelley added this sentence to 2-F:
"So, there is a Clubshaft Plane, and a Sweetspot, or Swing Plane. But, herein, unless otherwise noted, Plane Angle and Plane Line always refer to the Center of Gravity [Sweetspot] application."
You would have the good Mr. Kim held hostage to the Shaft's original Angle of Inclination, yet you move the Sweetspot NINE inches outside the original Plane of Motion. That, sir, is not only bad science, it's downright goofy. Apologies in advance if you consider that last sentence an "ad hominem' attack.
Originally Posted by Jeff
I also think that he is going to have the "feeling" that the sweetspot rotates to the clubshaft plane post-impact (X rotates to B) and there will never be a "feeling" of the hosel leaving the elbow plane post-impact and rotating around the sweetspot.
Whatever. I make no claim as to what other golfers feel. But, I do know that when David slew Goliath, the sling got in line with the rock, not the other way around.
Originally Posted by Jeff
I am not at all convinced that a golfer who mentally thinks of an orbiting sweetspot, but still swings on-plane to the elbow plane by the 3rd parallel (like Anthony Kim), will generate a different clubshaft/clubhead arc of movement than Anthony Kim.
A question posed by yourself, considered by yourself, and answered by yourself. Yet you remain unconvinced. Why?
Originally Posted by Jeff
A question - the baseline of the sweetspot plane must exist outside the baseline of the clubshaft plane. During which part of the swing is the golfer tracing the sweetspot plane (aiming at the sweetspot plane)?
All parts. Per 1-L #6, "The [Sweetspot (which replaces the Clubshaft per 2-F)] always the points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other". And what is the golfer's means of tracing the Sweetspot Plane Line? Lag Pressure. Ya gotta ditch this preoccupation with the Clubshaft, Jeff. It's killin' ya.
Originally Posted by Jeff
Can a golfer practice tracing a SPL with a dowel stick, which doesn't have a clubhead and a rotating sweetspot that is a finite distance away from the longitudinal axis of the shaft in the impact zone?
Of course: Just point the dowel at the Sweetspot Plane Line (normally, the Target Line).
You wrote-: "All parts. Per 1-L #6, "The [Sweetspot (which replaces the Clubshaft per 2-F)] always the points at the Plane Line except when they are parallel to each other".
From my perspective, the sweetspot and the clubshaft are on the same plane when the clubshaft is above waist level (above the third parallel). Therefore, during the early-mid downswing, the butt end of the clubshaft points at the ball-target line (as if the club is merely a dowel stick without a clubhead). Therefore, I "feel" as if it is the clubshaft that points at the ball-target in the early-mid downswing.
From the delivery position to impact, a golfer simply performs a release swivel action that squares the clubface. I do not believe that a golfer can change his on-plane condition after the golf club has passed the third parallel position without "steering". I believe that if I am not perfectly on-plane by the time my clubshaft reaches the third parallel position, then it is too late to alter my imperfect off-plane condition.
Also, the absolute difference between the base of the clubshaft hosel plane and the base of the sweetspot plane reaches a maximum value of about 2" at impact and decreases to zero at the 3rd parallel and 4th parallel conditions. That results in only a small angular difference in inclined plane between the clubshaft plane and sweetspot plane in the impact zone (and which only exists to a significant degree within a distance of about 12" behind/in front of the ball) and that very small difference is something my brain automatically computes on a subconscious level.
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