But - what's the point of a back swing at all if there's no energy storage related to the golf stroke? Why not just move the club forward from address?
(Rethorical quesion: Of course energy is stored through the down swing. You increase the mv2 all the way to the ball.)
Well no... energy is not stored (or conserved). The golf swing is not very efficient. We do the backswind to establish "potential" energy ....a small amount of gravitational rho*g*h and a whole lot of musclar-skeletal "P.E.". The backswing is like putting "fuel" in the muscular-skeletal engine.
At the top of the backswing our "kinetic linkage" is displaced to one end of its "range of motion" and our muscles are outstreched and ready to contract.
Once the downswing begins muscles fire, the linkage begins moving and eventually some 22% (Nesbit) of that potential energy gets converted into Kinetic energy (1/2 m V^2) concentrated at the head of the club. None of it really ever gets stored (for long) or in a benificial way (i.e. club shaft bend doesn't help us). Like Wishon I believe "shaft kick" is a myth.
Now setting all of this aside.....
It is quite possible in the "optimal" (if there is such a thing) golf swing there is a point on the golfer's body that remains steady (motionless). I have no problem with people calling that a swing center or what ever as long as they realize is highly unlikely that this spot is where "centripetal force" gets directed for anything other than an instant and probably then just by coincidence.
Yoda - you wrote-: "Except as effected by Wristcock for Power considerations, the Hands and Clubhead ideally move in concentric circles. This is Rhythm!"
Un-huh! Especially in 10-23-A.
Thanks for sharing your opinion,
Now, I can go back to regular (I mean "reality") programming.
Yoda - you wrote-: "Except as effected by Wristcock for Power considerations, the Hands and Clubhead ideally move in concentric circles. This is Rhythm!"
Un-huh! Especially in 10-23-A.
Thanks for sharing your opinion,
Now, I can go back to regular (I mean "reality") programming.
Jeff.
Got it, Jeff.
Leave aside the fact that each of the Delivery Paths (10-23-A/B/C/D/E) have their separate identity from Rhythm . . .
Let your world continue to unfold as you see fit.
Thrill a minute on Spaceship Jeff!
P.S. And, hey, I like that flak jacket . . . It's you!
The different hand delivery paths get their separate identity from rhythm --- the rhythm between the i) torso rotational movement (including secondary axis tilt variations) and ii) the left arm rotational movement at the level of the left shoulder socket (including variations in left arm/hand plane shift during the left arm's rotational movement). Varying rhythm produces variably-shaped hand arc paths, and some of those hand arc paths are not perfectly circular in nature.
Doing my dead-level best to generate Lag Pressure, and . . .
Trace that Straight Plane Line.
If only I had known . . .
Originally Posted by jeff
The different hand delivery paths get their separate identity from rhythm --- the rhythm between the i) torso rotational movement (including secondary axis tilt variations) and ii) the left arm rotational movement at the level of the left shoulder socket (including variations in left arm/hand plane shift during the left arm's rotational movement). Varying rhythm produces variably-shaped hand arc paths, and some of those hand arc paths are not perfectly circular in nature.
I like your mathematical expertise when dealing with problems in golf physics.
However, sometimes you get it wrong.
You wrote-: "Nope.... sometimes forces do no work and when the don't do work they can't contribute power (or store energy)
Lets step back.
Work is Force X Distance (has units of energy)
Power is Work / time."
Your formula is wrong when you state that work = force X distance.
One also needs to consider the work force needed to stay in balance when moving in a circular manner. Centripetal force is constantly operating to keep an object in its circular track while traveling at a constant speed - and if the centripetal force is operant, then it is contributing to work (energy) output by preventing the object from flying off its circular path.
Consider two cars having a 100 miles race. Car A has to travel 100 miles on a straight track. If car A completes the race in 1 hour by traveling at 100mph, then car A has expended a certain amount of energy (work output) to complete the race in 1 hour. Now imagine car B having to travel 100 miles on a circular track. If car B completes the race in 1 hour by traveling at a constant speed of 100mph, then car B has expended much more energy (work output) in the same time than car A. The extra energy was expended in trying to keep the car on the circular track at all times while it was racing around a constantly present amount of road bend at 100mph. That extra energy is the centripetal force energy required to constantly centripetally accelerate the car (to constantly keep the car moving along a circular path, rather than a straight path).
Work ONLY gets done when it causes kinetic energy to change. If D (distance) is zero, no work gets done. Centripetal acceleration does not change the kinetic energy of a rotating body. IT DOES NO WORK.
Originally Posted by Jeff
One also needs to consider the work force needed to stay in balance when moving in a circular manner. Centripetal force is constantly operating to keep an object in its circular track while traveling at a constant speed - and if the centripetal force is operant, then it is contributing to work (energy) output by preventing the object from flying off its circular path.
Consider two cars having a 100 miles race. Car A has to travel 100 miles on a straight track. If car A completes the race in 1 hour by traveling at 100mph, then car A has expended a certain amount of energy (work output) to complete the race in 1 hour. Now imagine car B having to travel 100 miles on a circular track. If car B completes the race in 1 hour by traveling at a constant speed of 100mph, then car B has expended much more energy (work output) in the same time than car A. The extra energy was expended in trying to keep the car on the circular track at all times while it was racing around a constantly present amount of road bend at 100mph. That extra energy is the centripetal force energy required to constantly centripetally accelerate the car (to constantly keep the car moving along a circular path, rather than a straight path).
Jeff.
NO BOTH CARS EXPEND THE SAME ENERGY. However the car on the track's tires would show more wear DUE TO FRICTION (the force that provided the click->centripetal force requirement )
Last edited by no_mind_golfer : 12-24-2008 at 12:21 PM.
Reason: try to get hyperlinks to show
Work is Force X Distance (has units of energy)
Power is Work / time."
Your formula is wrong when you state that work = force X distance.
One also needs to consider the work force needed to stay in balance when moving in a circular manner. Centripetal force is constantly operating to keep an object in its circular track while traveling at a constant speed - and if the centripetal force is operant, then it is contributing to work (energy) output by preventing the object from flying off its circular path.
Jeff,
The formula is 100% correct. Without exception. This is very basic physics.
The efforts to stay in balance, preventing the object from flying off its circular path etc does not produce work in a Newtonian sense. And they do not produce swing speed either. Even though they are required to perform a golf stroke.
Hybrid Mode
