LynnBlakeGolf Forums - View Single Post - Pivot center Thread: Pivot center View Single Post #245 12-24-2008, 12:05 AM Yoda Administrator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 10,681 Concentric Circles Originally Posted by Jeff Yodas Luke You wrote-: "Let's make the geometry simple, if anyone else is going to learn anything. And, we'll consider the center of the circle the left shoulder, since it's the top of the radius. Let's call the left shoulder "A". We'll call the hands "B" and the clubhead "C". Scenario #1, Hands: If the distance between "A" and "B" remains somewhat constant (Extensor Action), "B" should inscribe a circle on a piece of paper, like a compass. If we complicate it by letting "A" move (like the golf stroke), the circle becomes somewhat elliptical." In your mind, the hand arc's 3-D movement in space should be dominated by the movement of B in a circular rotational arc around the axis point of A, which theoretically should produce a circular hand arc. However, you are minimizing the importance of the independent movement of A as significantly affecting the shape of the hand arc - when you write "somewhat elliptical". The reality is that the independent movement of A dominates the early downswing. In the early downswing, the pelvis shift movement pulls the power package assembly intact all the way down to waist level - without significant separation of the left arm from the chest wall (PA#4 remains loaded). That means that there is no rotational movement of B around the axis point of A, and most of the hand movement in space is due to the movement of the left shoulder socket (A). You can see that phenomenon is Ben Hogan's swing here. Look at how much Hogan's hands move down in the early downswing - without any rotational movement of B around the axis point of A as a result of the release of PA#4. The loaded/intact left arm flying wedge's relationship to the left shoulder socket remains unchanged until the hands reach waist level, and it is only then that PA#4 releases allowing B to rotate around the axis point of A in a circular fashion. The same phenomenon can see in this bird's eye view series of images. Note that the left arm-shoulder angle remains roughly the same during the early downswing (I incorrectly placed the apex of that wedge in image 1 which makes the angle look wider) - until the hands get down to waist level. That means that the first part of the hand arc (in the early downswing) essentially doesn't involve any rotational movement of B around the axis point of A (due to the release of pA#4), and is mainly due to the independent movement of A. That's why the hand arc is generally U-shaped, and not circular. Jeff. Wow! Un-huh . . . And Amen! For the rest of us: Except as effected by Wristcock for Power considerations, the Hands and Clubhead ideally move in concentric circles. This is Rhythm (2-0; 6-B-3-0; and The Glossary / Rhythm / Wristcock). __________________ Yoda Yoda View Public Profile Send a private message to Yoda Visit Yoda's homepage! Find all posts by Yoda